tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6261993076995357307.post195491676070953787..comments2023-11-05T06:16:56.961-05:00Comments on the Carpentry Way: Wood MovesAnonymoushttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14328401081765407624noreply@blogger.comBlogger6125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6261993076995357307.post-72063768284556771572009-02-28T10:24:00.000-05:002009-02-28T10:24:00.000-05:00Now, I'm of a mixed mind when it comes to the scen...Now, I'm of a mixed mind when it comes to the scenario of the chisel dropping to the floor - do I sacrifice my foot/hand, or not? Anyone who has had to spend hours redoing the edge of a chisel after it found the concrete would understand the issue, I'm sure :^)<BR/><BR/>~ChrisAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14328401081765407624noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6261993076995357307.post-6654575589273794522009-02-27T23:47:00.000-05:002009-02-27T23:47:00.000-05:00Got to watch the wooden handles on socket chisels ...Got to watch the wooden handles on socket chisels in the summer, especially if your wearing sandals. ;^)Koothttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12392313015470432114noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6261993076995357307.post-87212337822628069952009-02-27T23:23:00.000-05:002009-02-27T23:23:00.000-05:00Hi Marv,nice to hear from you again. Sounds like y...Hi Marv,<BR/><BR/>nice to hear from you again. Sounds like you have had some diverse experiences with wood in a few different climates. You're now in a place with some nice wood - the mountain Doug Fir I much preferred to the coastal variety, and then there's a fair bit of Larch too. Nice spot to be in, especially Nelson!<BR/><BR/>Speaking of difficult environment to design solid wood products for, a friend of mine who I worked with in California had just moved there from Salt Lake City. Apparently it is so dry in SLC that it is very difficult to get wood sufficiently dried in out of the kiln so that it will work well in service. Even wood taken down to 6% m.c. in the shop could develop shrinkage problems in service after a few years.<BR/><BR/>The Northeast is a challenging environment because the humidity swings from near 0% in the winter to near 100% during parts of the summer. Besides dealing with that factor in the wood, there is dealing with that factor in the problems with tools. The heads of all my hammers are loose right now, for instance. I am thinking having a winter and summer set of tools might make sense here as many carpenters in Japan, an environment with severe swings as well,a do just that, even having winter and summer sharpening stones.<BR/><BR/>Glad you're enjoying the blog, and I appreciate your comments.<BR/><BR/>~ChrisAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14328401081765407624noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6261993076995357307.post-60057114916383132432009-02-27T22:55:00.000-05:002009-02-27T22:55:00.000-05:00You know after I posted I thought to myself, "that...You know after I posted I thought to myself, "that was a pretty off-handed generalization", and it was also completely based on my own local experiences, so I guess very subjective. I do agree with your comments about wood movement and its seasonal swelling and shrinking after drying. <BR/><BR/>As a bit of background to where my thoughts come from I did most of my furniture making on Prince Edward Island which meant bone dry houses in winter (shrinkage) and lots of dampness in the summer (swelling). When I first started in the trade most of my wood (kiln dried) was trucked in from Ontario, and was often as low as 7% moisture content, maybe good for the desert but not the Maritimes so after a few hard lessons I learned to leave it stacked for a season or two to allow it to pick up a bit of moisture. This is what I meant by my off-hand "appropriatley seasoned for local climatic changes" quip. Over time I learned the 8 to 9% m.c. range was going to be the happy medium for where I lived if the furniture was for inside the average home. However I did send some major projects off to large cities in the "real world" and often wonder how they made out over the last 30 years. Kind of like Sheets mentioned earlier 'hope I raised my children right'.<BR/> <BR/>Over the years I started air drying my own rock maple, yellow birch and pine, the final drying stage being in an old school bus in the summer, and then giving it a spell of "sitting around" in the shop to pick up a bit of moisture, again hoping for that ever elusive happy medium. Really in some ways just a crap shoot all in all, but tempered by some hard experiences and careful observations.<BR/><BR/>I now live in what is termed an Interior Rain Forest of British Columbia near the West Kootenay town of Nelson (a few miles up the West Arm from a local timberframe-gone-Hundegger outfit that you probably know Chris) and while the wood movement isn't quite as severe it is always an issue to plan for and build around. However, back to springing the boards, well I'm just not sure it's in my "grain".<BR/><BR/>I'm really enjoying your blog Chris,(I discovered it through Tomohito Iiada's link) keep the fire burning!<BR/><BR/>MarvKoothttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12392313015470432114noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6261993076995357307.post-1311282054407137332009-02-27T14:08:00.000-05:002009-02-27T14:08:00.000-05:00Koot,I think the key thing is that "appropriately ...Koot,<BR/><BR/>I think the key thing is that "appropriately seasoned for local climatic changes" is not a particularly accurate term or way of thinking about the issue. If you live in a climate with a relatively steady amount of relative humidity year round, then the issue of moisture loss/gain is somewhat moot after the wood has been acclimatized to a given m.c., and one could be successful using a piece of wood that had dried to some given point.<BR/><BR/>If you live in a climate with large swings in seasonal humidity levels, then the comment 'appropriately seasoned for local climatic changes' is somewhat meaningless. Wood is going to swell at the humid time of year and shrink at the dry time of year. After the initial drop of moisture content from saturation point at the time the tree is cut, there is a large change in wood volume, and when the wood has been later 'dried', the range of movement afterwards, plus/minus, is not going to be as great, but it still moves. The cells in the timber that held the moisture are damaged by the moisture loss and thus can never take up quite the volume of moisture they did while the tree was standing.<BR/><BR/>So, at the humid time of year, which is summer in New England, the wood will be swelled up a bit. It doesn't matter if this is year 1 of the 'seasonal acclimatization' or season 10. Thus, the boards you joined on edge will loose moisture in the winter, most heavily from their end grain. If you use the term 'seasonally acclimatized' which season are you referring to?<BR/><BR/>I think hollowing the edge is a good precaution against the season movement issue, and in this climatic zone in which I live a wise thing to do. What could be wrong with "erring on the side of caution"? That said, I probably wouldn't bother doing the springing on short pieces, say under 18" long.<BR/><BR/>In fact, since one can have no idea what happens to a piece of furniture after it leaves the shop, it is wise, in my view, to design around the worst-case scenario. If you build your piece in an expectation of an ambient humidity such that a wood with 12% m.c. performs just fine, then that piece will suffer if the client takes it to their new home in Salt Lake City (as an extreme example).<BR/><BR/>This has been borne out in observing what happens to old pieces of high quality furniture, which many would say used, in the 'good old days', wood that was 'seasoned properly' - put them in a modern home, heated all winter, and you will see these pieces crack and shrink and twist. This is a major issue in the conservation of such pieces. Another example would be a lot of the high end hardwood furniture I have seen out of Hong Kong - in Vancouver there is a store specializing in that stuff, and after 2 seasons in the store, there are cracks and gaps in the pieces, and I'm sure this wouldn't be the case in Hong Kong, where the humidity is more constant.<BR/><BR/>Since wood moves, designing around that fact is a critical aspect of the process of creating, and in the production of pieces that are meant to last for years. I don't trust the glue in fact, so I don't even do edge-edge glue ups any more, I always use a tongue and groove AND glue, and hollow the joint very slightly. Overkill to some, but to me it means a piece with better integrity over the long term.<BR/><BR/>~ChrisAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14328401081765407624noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6261993076995357307.post-17779050451682105212009-02-27T13:35:00.000-05:002009-02-27T13:35:00.000-05:00With stock that has been jointed true and appropri...With stock that has been jointed true and appropriately seasoned for local climatic changes does not "springing the joint" in edge to edge work simply become erring on the side of caution? <BR/><BR/>While this technique may leave you with the lesser of two evils does it really give the best joint?Koothttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12392313015470432114noreply@blogger.com