tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6261993076995357307.post731213281572964467..comments2023-11-05T06:16:56.961-05:00Comments on the Carpentry Way: French Connection 10Anonymoushttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14328401081765407624noreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6261993076995357307.post-13597145356596562462013-02-12T22:43:52.810-05:002013-02-12T22:43:52.810-05:00Tait,
ah, I see what you mean - a tapered tenon i...Tait,<br /><br />ah, I see what you mean - a tapered tenon in a tapered mortise. something to think about. Objections that come to mind immediately are:<br /><br />-such tapered mortises and tenons are never shown in any of the French drawings (not that the lack of that method is a huge disqualification mind you)<br />-it means taking an already difficult mortise, non-square and compound angled, passing obliquely through a member, and adding a tapering to it. Not a tasty proposition particularly <br /><br />As for dimensions - please take a look at the next post - #11. There, I mention the brace dimension of 1.125", and the top beam dimension of 1.5". I'm making this as a coffee table, as mentioned in post 9 in this series, so the parts are furniture size.<br /><br />~C Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14328401081765407624noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6261993076995357307.post-3487974537879186992013-02-12T21:47:09.330-05:002013-02-12T21:47:09.330-05:00When I talk about a diminishing tenon/mortise I me... When I talk about a diminishing tenon/mortise I mean one that is systematically laid out to the same tolerance as any square cut mortise not just randomly tapered. For example offset nominalº over the depth of the tenon and the mortise. The wiggle room comes into play and is advantageous only during assembly as the tenon is entering the mortise as it does not have to travel directly into the mortise. This is a structurally sound and common way to avoid what you call earlier "impossible assemblies"<br /> Assuming it is a compression joint the the strength of the joint would be the same.<br /> I do see there may be a pegging issue perhaps because of the "barbs". but it could be done.<br /> Can't wait to check out your progress!<br /> It does look like a great project. <br /> <br />What are the dimensions of these pieces?Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11192051893802798329noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6261993076995357307.post-25231789720975214842013-02-12T17:38:16.977-05:002013-02-12T17:38:16.977-05:00Tait,
thanks again. I am looking to make some of ...Tait,<br /><br />thanks again. I am looking to make some of the mortises 90˚ to the connecting member, and have already done this (as of today's drawing work) with the connections between the three top beams, which can be pegged. It also makes sense i think between the post tenons and the beams. <br /><br />It's a good idea and I'll see about incorporating it where it makes sense, which, it seems to me, isn't in every location. It might help out in enough places though to make this project possible without metal fasteners. <br /><br />~CAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14328401081765407624noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6261993076995357307.post-32141026135083027452013-02-12T17:34:12.233-05:002013-02-12T17:34:12.233-05:00Tait,
thanks for your comments and suggestions. B...Tait,<br /><br />thanks for your comments and suggestions. Blind compound mortises were already mentioned in the post, and I would rather avoid them. <br /><br />As for the beveling of the 'non-bearing' face of the tenon to allow more wiggle room, that's just not good joinery practice as far as I'm concerned, and would result in a loose interior fit for the tenon. The barbes on the pieces make these connections problematic to peg, and I would generally be thinking to wedge them on the exit face of the leg. So the diminished tenon idea wouldn't work so well with that I don't think.<br /><br />I'm not looking for just any old way to do it, I'm looking for a structurally sound and aesthetically clean connection between parts. I also realize this may not be possible given the parameters of the piece, but I'll swim upstream as far as I can before that surrender.<br /><br />~CAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14328401081765407624noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6261993076995357307.post-21212634423397790432013-02-12T17:22:57.377-05:002013-02-12T17:22:57.377-05:00Also you could level the tenon off from the point ...Also you could level the tenon off from the point it vanishes into the post. This would make the mortise 90º to the post which is much easier to clean out than a negative angled mortise. Also all that extra tenon just makes it hard to assemble and doesn't add any strength.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11192051893802798329noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6261993076995357307.post-48014636451803421462013-02-12T17:13:47.879-05:002013-02-12T17:13:47.879-05:00Wow that does look pretty intense! Have you consi...Wow that does look pretty intense! Have you considered not mortising all the way through the post? Maybe only go about half way through, it might make it easier to assemble if the tenons were a little shorter. You might also consider beveling back the tenon face of the uphill or non bearing side face of the tenon so it is diminishing in thickness as it gets longer. This would allow you a little play as you engage all the pieces as every little bit helps. I would love to see a picture when you finish this. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11192051893802798329noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6261993076995357307.post-68665766121671562412013-02-08T17:59:33.327-05:002013-02-08T17:59:33.327-05:00Bruce,
well I'm equally befuddled at times my...Bruce,<br /><br />well I'm equally befuddled at times myself, and that's part of the fun I suppose. Will definitely photo-document as I build it, however the core part of the puzzle - the truly difficult part - is the drawing. Once you can draw such a piece, constructing it is more or less 'just' a matter of carpentry.<br /><br />Mind you, it is perfectly possible to come to learn the drawing method without having any carpentry skills at all, however the shortcoming with that approach is that issues such as the tenon problem detailed in the post above will not be apparent unless you have done a fair amount of joinery cutting and have a grasp of those sort of issues.<br /><br />The best, I feel, is to combine the intellectual understanding of the piece AND engage the hands in the making of it, to complete the circle of understanding. A large portion of what informs my approach to this piece was the go-round with the four-legged Mazerolle sawhorse, detailed on this blog over 50 posts a few years back.<br /><br />~CAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14328401081765407624noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6261993076995357307.post-46269670602458002392013-02-08T17:53:25.810-05:002013-02-08T17:53:25.810-05:00John,
thanks for the comment. This project is a l...John,<br /><br />thanks for the comment. This project is a layout study in a French carpentry text from the 1850's, so it's primary purpose isn't necessarily a practical one, any more than learning the multiplication tables is directly practical. It's about learning a method which you can apply to practical things, a study that can be realized by constructing this bench rather than having to build an entire roof. I've seen several examples of this piece in constructed form. Actually, this three-legged sawhorse is an exercise which related to placing rotated braces in a timber frame structure between beams and purlins, called "Liens de pente".<br /><br />~CAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14328401081765407624noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6261993076995357307.post-45347202260205529802013-02-08T16:49:42.780-05:002013-02-08T16:49:42.780-05:00I am befuddled but also enthused by your passion f...I am befuddled but also enthused by your passion for this. Photos please as you build it.<br /> Thanks.Bruce Macknoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6261993076995357307.post-81127752509815171542013-02-08T14:49:50.048-05:002013-02-08T14:49:50.048-05:00Wow Chris, I got dizzy just looking at your drawin...Wow Chris, I got dizzy just looking at your drawings of this joinery. Is this something that was actually used? Where do you find something like that? I like to challenge myself but not so sure I could handle that level. I'm afraid I can't offer a thing to help you out on this but it's fascinating!Johnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01854594428032733260noreply@blogger.com